专访联合国前高官：生态与经济兼顾是中国新发展逻辑

导读

联合国环境署 (UNEP) 前执行主任、挪威前环境和国际发展部长埃里克·索尔海姆 (Erik Solheim) 10月17日作客中国日报社推出的访谈节目《连线·全球政要看中国十年》。他表示，中共二十大报告反映出中国对气候环境问题高度关注，过去十年中国在这方面成绩斐然，已成为全球新能源和绿色产业的引领者。对此，世界其他国家应客观看待。绿色转型不仅将助力中国实现“弯道超车”，也证明生态和经济完全可以兼顾。

“美丽中国”正从图景变为现实

索尔海姆说，改革开放的头三十年里，中国以经济建设为中心，致力于实现全面脱贫。中国在脱贫攻坚方面卓有成效，但并非没有代价，这个代价就是严重污染。于是中国需要思变求变，即进行产业结构调整。这意味着必须大力减少污染，转移污染产业，降低污染行业造成的危害。

In the first three decades of opening-up, China prioritized economic growth above everything else to bring everyone out of poverty. China had fantastic success in that, never ever in human history. But there was a cost. The cost was heavy pollution and you needed to change this. That is, of course, to restructure industries, meaning that there must be much less polluting, and restructuring them in the way that they may move to some other places where the harm is less.

过去十年间，中国在污染防治方面取得的成就超过西方三四十年的成就，可谓大获全胜。中国在各领域不断完善环境保护制度，值得全世界称赞，比如长江流域全面禁渔。再比如说，我们已然能从一些城市上看到美丽中国的样子，深圳、杭州、苏州就堪为典范。这方面的例子不胜枚举。在建设美丽中国的过程中，中国人民更加关爱自然，更谦卑地对待自然，我认为这非常好。

In one decade, China achieved more fighting pollution than the West has done in three or four decades. That’s of course an enormous, enormous victory. China has established some systems for caring better for environment everywhere, which are commendable from the entire world. The fishing ban in the Yangtze upper and lower river valleys, one example. The way some Chinese cities like Shenzhen, Hangzhou, Suzhou has developed their beauty, are now the example. There're so many examples of this. I think it's great to mobilize the Chinese people to take better care of nature and to be more humble in nature.

民心所向就是中国共产党的工作方向

索尔海姆认为，治污和反腐是中国这十年的两大注脚，很大程度上是因为它们是民心所向。

Fighting pollution and corruption have been two of the trademarks of China in the last decade, very largely because there's such big public support for these campaigns.

中国共产党成为中国的执政党，是人民的选择，关注人民诉求是刻在中国共产党和中国政府的基因里的。另一方面，政府希望不负人民的支持，而中国人民确实希望在环保领域看到变化。在我看来也是这样。政府理解人民的诉求，于是开始采取行动。

The CPC came to power in China because at the end they've got the support from most people in China. So, it's kind of the DNA of the Party and the government. But it's also because the government wants the support of the people, and the people of China would really want to see change in this area. That was true from my perspective. The government understood that demand from the people, and started acting.

同样地，反腐也是刻在中国共产党的基因里的，也是中国人民的强烈诉求。人民不希望看到政商界领袖成为自己国家的“蛀虫”。

Very similarly, the campaign against corruption is part of the DNA of the Party, but also a strong demand from the Chinese people: “We don't want to see leaders in business of politics stealing from our country or eating from the cake.”

中国已成为全球绿色行业领军者

在索尔海姆看来，西方媒体大多数时候对中国的看法过于负面，这会导致西方国家对于真实发生的情况一无所知。现实是：如果欧美想在一切可再生能源领域和新兴环境产业上与中国竞争，就必须得“笨鸟先飞”。目前中国在所有的环保相关行业都处于领先地位。去年，中国生产了全球82%的太阳能电池板、70%的动力电池。你要是买一辆美国电动汽车，没错，它可能是在加州组装的，但它的电池是中国制造的，而电池的成本就占了整辆车的一半。

Largely the view put forward in Western media is far too negative on China. And that makes a very big problem for Western nations, because they don't understand what's happening. A reality now is that Europe and North America need to get up very, very early in the morning, if you want to compete with China in all the renewable energies and all the environment industries which are now coming up. China's now world-leading in every environmental industry: 82 percent of all solar panels in the world were made in China last year; 70 percent of all electric batteries were made in China. If you buy an American car, yes, it's constructed maybe in California, but the battery is made in China and the battery is half the value of the car.

中国企业的实力也不容小觑。而欧美国家却对此浑然不觉。未来中国将席卷所有市场，而如果我们对中国目前在环保产业几乎全面领先的现状一无所知，那么我们将落得满盘皆输。

There are so many Chinese companies now leading the charts. Frankly, Europe and North America are not understanding this. China will capture all these markets, and we will lose out in the competition if we do not understand how advanced China now is in basically every environment industry.

生态与经济兼顾是中国新发展逻辑

索尔海姆指出，在过去，要发展就要产生污染，就要对自然环境造成破坏。不论在哪，煤炭能源都是实现经济繁荣最便宜的方式。

In the past, there was no way to development without pollution and without some destruction to nature. Coal was everywhere the cheapest way to get into prosperity.

但21世纪这个逻辑就不适用了，因为现在世界上最便宜的能源是太阳能。实现从煤炭到太阳能的转变，不仅意味着造福地球母亲，增进人类健康福祉，也意味着实现经济发展的提质增效，因为它能够创造更多就业机会，节省公共资金预算。中国的石油天然气严重依赖进口，但若能代之以太阳能或风能发电，不仅对地球母亲来说是件好事，也对国家财政极其有利，因为中国可以将省下的钱用于教育和医疗。

The 21st century is very, very different, because solar energy is now the cheapest energy everywhere in the world. If you switch from coal to solar, not only do you do much more for Mother Earth and for people's health, but you also do much more for the economy. You create many, many more jobs. You save money on public budgets, see the case of China, and nearly all oil and gas is imported. If China can replace that with electricity produced by solar or wind in China, it’s good for Mother Earth, but it's also very, very good for the state budget of China, which can then use this money on education and health.

此外，能源转型对中国来说尤为重要的另一个原因在于，中国是个后发国家，汽车等传统工业基础薄弱，因此中国在上世纪高污染行业的竞争中落了下风。但对中国来说，在未来实现跨越式发展，引领电动汽车产业，就容易得多。如今，中国占据了全球电动汽车行业的半壁江山，全球98%的电动公交车都在中国的道路上行驶，真是不可思议。所以，摒弃那些破坏地球才能发展经济的陈旧观念吧，未来是双赢的，生态保护和经济发展完全可以兼顾。

And of course, for China, this was also particularly important because China didn't have, say, a major automobile industry. So, it was hard for China to compete in the old 20th century polluting industries, but it's much easier for China to leapfrog into the future, and to be a dominant player in the electric mobility industry. Now you see China's 50 percent of the market for electric cars in the world, and incredibly 98 percent of all electric buses on Planet Earth are running on Chinese roads. So, let's forget this old idea that we need to destroy the planet to have economic progress. The future is win-win, good for ecology and good for economy at the same time.

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出品人：王浩 刘伟玲

监制：柯荣谊 宋平

制片：张少伟

记者：沈一鸣 张欣然 刘源 张钊 栾瑞英 刘夏

实习生： 袁嘉忆 王博麟

中国观察智库

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