为了迎接党的二十大胜利召开,中国日报新媒体联合中国观察智库,推出访谈节目《连线 · 全球政要看中国十年》,邀请履历丰富、视角独特、洞悉深刻的国际政要,畅谈对中国这十年发展的感悟。


来源: 中国日报网
2022-07-08 17:53 


本期节目我们邀请了意大利前经济发展部副部长杰拉奇先生(Michele Geraci),和我们聊聊他对中国发展和近期国际局势的看法。欢迎关注我们的节目,回顾中国这波澜壮阔的十年。


Q:What words would you use to summarize China's economic performance over the past decade?


A:It's been strong, solid. And it has also shifted the gear from a very, very high growth and maybe unbalanced. In the last ten years, I have seen a lower growth but of a better quality. We have seen, for example, GDP going up, but not so much as the nine or ten percent of the decades before. But, we've also seen, disparities, for example, between the urban and rural residence begin to narrow again. So that means that China maintains a healthy gap to continue to be having migrants seen benefit from moving to rural areas to urban areas, but not so big to create social unrest.


Q:What is your opinion on today's globalization progress?


A:It depends on what we mean by globalization, I think we have always thought that the globalization means the Western world. And I think this is in a little bit retrenching mode, trying to rely more on our own market. But then globalization is also growing in other parts of the world like Asia and Africa. So overall I see these two completely opposite trends. The Western-based globalization will reduce, but the global globalization that includes the other continents will actually grow. So it will be a new type of globalization. Maybe the West in one area, not isolated, but a little bit ring-fenced and then the rest of the two big continents, Asia and Africa, having their own trade and the global markets. So I see a decoupling between the West and the rest of the world. It is not where East and West. It’s the West, meaning Europe, parts of Europe, not all of Europe, some parts of Europe and the US and Canada, and then maybe Australia and New Zealand and then the rest of the world. So in a way, globalization will increase overall.


Q:Is the current shift of the industrial and supply chain of developed countries a kind of "de-globalization"?


A:Not really, because the supply chain is based on many things and there are some areas of the world that cannot de-globalize. Europe does not have energy, for example, it does not have raw material. So this de-globalization could be mostly for production but not for material. So it's very complex. We could have a de-globalization or a decrease in globalization in the production processes. But we seem to be very much integrated because you need to have raw materials before you can process them. And that cannot be decoupled.



Q:The US and some European countries are taking sanctions against Russia over Ukraine. What consequences will this bring to the European and global economy?


A:The sanction that the EU is putting on Russia, I'm afraid it is not the sanction that are useful to bring peace. I know almost as a fact that they were done on the emotion rather than on analysis. And so unfortunately, they are not working very well. In fact, with the increase in gas and oil prices, we are actually paying more money to Russia. So I think the sanctions are the wrong type of sanction. Completely the wrong type of sanction that would not bring peace, but could even have the opposite effect to even finance the war.


Q:How should Europe resolve the crisis in your opinion?


A:There are two ways to resolve crisis. Either you go to war or you do diplomacy. And I prefer, of course, the second one, because war is uncontrollable.


There are some countries that happen to be in an unlucky position, in what I call it "a fracture areas" between the geopolitical blocs. And this is the case of the eastern part of Ukraine, which is not unique, there are many countries in the world that need to balance the demand of one side and the other side.  Like, we, in Europe are the allies of the United States, like other countries have, let's say a "grandfather" that in a way influences the policy. We have to be honest that not all countries are independent. The smaller countries, especially those that find themselves in those areas, they cannot choose one hundred percent of their policy. They are influenced by stronger geopolitical powers. So we need to find the solution that recognizes the fact that Russia needs to protect its own interests, military, and territorial integrity, which Putin thinks are at risk, while the rest of Europ‍e needs to have their own territorial integrity. It's not easy, but it's the only way to do it.



Q:What is your insight into future Sino-Italy and Sino-Europe relationship?


A:It's a bit challenging because we are both partners and competitors. So, what I have tried to do and what I will try to do and continue to do with my new role is always to find not the point of clash, but the point of overlap, the way actually we can work together without competing.


And so, for example, China, give you some ideas, green, we don't want to rely on the fossil fuel, maybe we don't want to rely on Russia. So what can we do, we need solar panel. Who makes solar panel? China. So we should today, import solar panels from China. The problem is, and this is the debate we're having here in Italy, we don't want to also rely for all our energy on the supplies of components from China either. So there's always a trade-off between the buying goods from abroad and relying entirely on that specific supplier. So diversification is the key part we need to start. And this is an area where I see China and Italy, it's a win-win for both to cooperate on these sectors, solar panel and development of green energy.


Other areas could be the development of infrastructure. So I think now with this energy crisis, development of port is another big area. China has, of course, lots of experience. Italy has the geography. And we have ports, we are in the center of the Mediterranean. So that was the geographic strategic asset that we have. But we also need the cooperation from other countries, another company, investment, because it's not just the investment of ports, it's also we need to attract the traffic that goes into those ports. And where do the containers leave from? They leave from China and from the rest of Asia. So we want to develop ports, so we will become, let's say, one of the main landing ports in the Europe of goods, inside containers coming from Asia.



China and Italy could find a point of overlapping without clashing and achieve a win-win outcome, according to Mr Geraci. The two nations will grasp the opportunities the Belt and Road Initiative brings and gain success.在杰拉奇先生看来,中国和意大利,两国可以求同存异,取得共赢。中意两国可以抓住“一带一路”倡议带来的众多机遇,取得成功。


监制: 柯荣谊 宋平

制片:张少伟 栾瑞英

记者:沈一鸣 张欣然 史雪凡 周星佐

王韦翰 栗思月 刘源

实习生:吕文祎 林渝景 王博麟 孙伊茗




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